Episode 030 - Erin Kenney

The following is a conversation with Erin Kenney, the CEO of Nutrition Rewired. Erin is a registered dietitian with a Master's in nutritional science.

She's done an amazing job in building a business that helps people take control of their lives through modulating their diet, improving their gut health and ultimately looking after the gut microbiome.

Today's conversation was far-reaching. We talked about fibre, We talked about gums, we talked about artificial sweeteners, carbohydrates, fats, proteins, and supplements. This was pretty much an A to Z of what to do to look after your gut health, what works and what doesn't.

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of the listeners and supporters of the podcast for everything you've done to help us build the name, and the brand, and to get the message out there around microbiome being critically important and gut health being really important for wider body health.

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Introduction

00:01:19 How Erin became interested in gut health

00:04:32 Biggest impacts on Erin’s health

00:06:09 Stress and gut health

00:09:22 Does caffeine give us energy?

00:14:46 Bone broth instead of coffee

00:16:06 Coffee and our liver

00:16:48 Taking control of gut health

00:18:42 The role of a good breakfast

00:21:55 Lean muscle mass and women

00:23:07 Importance of protein

00:26:32 Role of supplements

00:29:35 Creating an optimal regime

00:32:33 Ketogenic diets

00:38:34 SIBO

00:46:24 Microbiome testing

00:49:00 Vitamin D

00:51:51 Green powder supplements

00:55:19 Heavy metals

01:01:38 Artificial sweeteners

01:05:58 Gum instead of gluten

01:10:18 Palm oil

01:12:20 Nutrition Rewired

Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] JAMES: The following is a conversation with Erin Kenny, the CEO of Nutrition Rewired. Erin is a registered dietitian with a master's in nutritional science. She's done an amazing job in building a business up that helps people take control of their lives through modulating their diet, improving their gut health and ultimately looking after the gut microbiome.

[00:00:24] JAMES: Today's conversation was far reaching. We talked about fiber, We talked about gums, we talked about artificial sweeteners, carbohydrates, fats, proteins, supplements. This was pretty much a A to Z of what to do to look after your gut health, what works and what doesn't. I really appreciated how simply Erin put lots of complicated topics for the listener.

[00:00:49] JAMES: She podcast so that might explain why she was such a good guest. This is an amazing episode for anyone who's wanting to enter into this field, but we also digged into some [00:01:00] technical aspects, and I learned a lot over the course of the conversation. This is Inside Matters. My name is Dr. James McIlroy. I hope you enjoy it.

[00:01:16] JAMES: So how did you get interested then in gut health? 

[00:01:19] ERIN: It was a very selfish Journey for me, I, from a very young age, struggled with digestive issues. They had to take me off of being breastfed when I was a baby and got on to formula fed. And, you know, I was struggling with a ton of digestive issues. And basically they just slapped me with a diagnosis of lactose intolerance.

[00:01:42] ERIN: And basically what most of my childhood, struggling with horrible pain, horrible bowel movement. I will honestly say that a majority of my childhood was spent in the bathroom because Of how bad things were with my gut and [00:02:00] I really didn't have much help, you know, it was kind of just, you know, let's watch out for dairy and let's watch out for, you know, triggers and things like that, but it was kind of just, you know, take elodium and, and hope for the best.

[00:02:13] ERIN: So, fast forward, you know, as I started to get older, I was a full time athlete, I was, you know, in high school, and really wanted to start taking care of myself. I struggled with mental health issues, I lost my father to his battle with mental health struggles, and it started to connect with me that on the days when my stomach was at its worst, my mental health was also at its worst.

[00:02:42] ERIN: And so I was starting to make these connections and, you know, learn and, Spent a lot of time on Google, which, you know, we all know is not a reputable source of information. But nonetheless, I was, I was interested in, in seeking alternative ways to help [00:03:00] support my body. And when I went to college, I didn't really know what I wanted to major in.

[00:03:05] ERIN: And I thought, you know, nutrition sounds like something that I could use some support with, considering everything that I'm going through and. You know, the things that I've read online and from there on out, it was just about healing myself. I learned, you know, after being on a decade of medications from birth control to fix the hormone imbalance, from PPI's to address the chronic acid reflux, you know, it was just being thrown medication after medication because doctors were just treating symptoms.

[00:03:40] ERIN: So I, I've dedicated all my time to researching about, you know, the gut microbiome and nutrition. And then I was in school for nutrition. And I started following people in the field who were talking about these things, talking about the gut microbiome, talking about how nutrition impacts mental health. I [00:04:00] just lit up, you know, it was, it was like, for the first time in my life, someone was speaking to me and, you know, I felt validated too, for so many years, it's like, oh, it's just all in your head, you just gotta, you know, stop eating dairy, and I have now, Basically built a business on helping individuals get to the root cause of their digestive issues and imbalances because of everything that I went through.

[00:04:25] ERIN: So I'm incredibly passionate about what I do and I'm just really excited to chat with you today. 

[00:04:32] JAMES: So what were some of the key things then as you went along your own journey that made the biggest impact to your own health? 

[00:04:39] ERIN: I will highlight a very important one that I think a lot of people don't consider and that's stress.

[00:04:45] ERIN: It's Uh, you know, there was a lot of stress in my life and I was kind of putting that on the back burner as something that, yeah, you know, I'm stressed, I'm, you know, working out intensely and doing all this stuff, but that [00:05:00] can't, you know, that's not going to make a huge difference. So I really had to prioritize stress as one of them.

[00:05:06] ERIN: Diet, as we all know, you know, is incredibly important. My diet was Not supportive of what I needed for my body. I played around with a plant based diet, and I have no shame for anybody who is, who loves their plant based diet, but for me it was not the right fit. I needed a plant forward diet, but I also needed protein.

[00:05:30] ERIN: I needed to really hone in on, like, focusing on diversity of what I was eating. I was eating a lot of the same things over and over again. I think a lot of us can get into a rut pretty easily with that. And then I learned, you know, how much diversity our gut needs in terms of the microbiome. So stress, diet was huge.

[00:05:50] ERIN: And then I had to address imbalances. I had small intestinal bacterial overgrowth because I was On proton pump inhibitors long term, I had yeast [00:06:00] overgrowth. Uh, so a lot of these things I learned from stool testing and I was able to Going 

[00:06:09] JAMES: back to the stress then. So how do people identify if their stress levels are too high?

[00:06:15] JAMES: And you mentioned exercise, maybe exercise is a double edged sword. If you do too much, it might be actually a big stress on your body. So what are your tools and tips then for stress management? I guess a little bit is good for you, right? But too much is detrimental. 

[00:06:31] ERIN: Sure. Yeah, we call that eustress, right?

[00:06:33] ERIN: It's that, that, that period where you're kind of in that Goldilocks sweet spot where stress is, is beneficial. It helps us grow. It's good for inflammation. But in terms of my own journey, I, I would love to say that I had this like, you know, lovely revelation of your stress and you need to pull back. It was.

[00:06:53] ERIN: One of those moments, I say this to clients all the time, it's if you listen to your body when it whispers, you don't have to hear [00:07:00] it when it screams. And I was at the screaming point where I was running seven to ten miles a day and You know, I got to a point where I couldn't barely even walk because I was just like so obsessed with how exercise made me feel, how good it was for my mental health.

[00:07:16] ERIN: So I was basically forced in to loving yoga. It wasn't love at first. It was a, it was, it was not love at first. It was a rocky relationship to begin with, but I thought this is the only thing I can do. Yoga is the only thing that I physically can do that's going to support my mental health and I just fell in love with it.

[00:07:37] ERIN: And to this day has always been an incredible stress management technique for me because not only do I get to move my body, but I'm doing it in a way that's not inflammatory. I'm doing it in a way where I'm, I'm like feeling everything of what's going on in my muscles and how tight I am and breath, right?

[00:07:57] ERIN: I'm breathing. So a lot of times [00:08:00] people will say, I'm just not good at meditation. And I'll say, well, have you tried yoga? Have you tried walking or yoga? Like those are also forms of meditation because you have to focus on your breath. If you're in a down dog position and you're sweating and you're tired, the only way you're going to get through that pose is that you're going to breathe.

[00:08:20] ERIN: So meditation has been, meditation and yoga have been incredible assets to my healing journey, but also just the way that I Manage my stress now and also just the awareness of what is my threshold for stress and what are some of the signs that come up for me when I know I've hit my breaking point and become more irritable towards the people that I love.

[00:08:45] ERIN: My sleep starts to suffer. My digestion starts to go off a little bit. So these are kind of my. Red flags of, Hey, Aaron, let's check in with yourself. You might be doing a little too much. So are those 

[00:08:59] JAMES: [00:09:00] the sort of whispers then before the screams, the irritability, the sleep? Yeah. 

[00:09:05] ERIN: And for females to even males, people think, yeah, changes in hormones, like you'd notice changes in your menstrual cycle or your libido, like those types of things can, can also take a hit when you're dealing with chronic stress.

[00:09:22] JAMES: Cause I guess a lot of people think, Oh, well. You know, I'm a little bit tired today. I'll just drink more coffee or I'm a little bit sore today. I'm just gonna train more But what you're saying is maybe you need to just slow down to perform 

[00:09:34] ERIN: better. Exactly. And I also love to talk to clients about how caffeine actually works.

[00:09:41] ERIN: Caffeine doesn't give us energy. It actually blocks these adenosine receptors in our brain. And these adenosine receptors are like those little whispers of us hearing the signal that we're tired. And once that caffeine wears off, those [00:10:00] adenosine receptors don't go away. They're still there to then tell our brain, hey, we're really tired.

[00:10:07] ERIN: So I always Tell people that, that you're not giving yourself more energy by loading up on caffeine, you're decreasing your perception of how tired you are, which is allowing you to push through something, whether it's a workout or a long, you know, night at work. And over time, especially your body is going to shut down.

[00:10:33] JAMES: As an avid coffee drinker, I'm sort of running through my head, am I drinking? I'm not listening to the whispers, but have you got recommendations then for your clients around coffee and caffeine, like some rules or suggestions in terms of when to drink, how much to drink? Cause that could be really interesting for the listeners on Inside Matters.

[00:10:52] ERIN: My number one tip is that, and I say this to clients, you have to eat a full breakfast before you have your [00:11:00] cup of coffee. And when we do this experiment, sometimes my clients will say, after I had,

[00:11:10] ERIN: they'll say, I didn't, I didn't even want my cup of coffee after I had my breakfast. And it's because we're not using artificial fuel, right? We're eating. Some nice eggs with, you know, some sweet potatoes and avocado and, you know, we're energized and now we don't have this craving for a stimulant. And I'm not shaming caffeine completely, especially coffee.

[00:11:36] ERIN: There's numerous health benefits in addition to the microbiome, but it's, it's evaluating that relationship with it. And so. So I always say, no coffee until you've had a, a, a full breakfast. Coffee does not count as breakfast. I tell them no caffeine after noon. Uh, the researcher, Michael, is it, oh, Matthew Walker.

[00:11:58] ERIN: He talks about [00:12:00] metabolism of caffeine and, you know, the half life and how long that caffeine can stay in your system. And You could be laying in bed at night if you had your cup of coffee at 3 p. m., and you're still metabolizing it in the middle of the night, impacting your quality of sleep, and then the cycle just starts again, right?

[00:12:18] ERIN: You wake up, you're exhausted, you're groggy, and that's because That's You know, that the later in the day that can impact your sleep. 

[00:12:27] JAMES: So someone maybe like me who wakes up in the morning and finds a way over to the coffee. I know myself. It just, it's like part of the routine and I kind of love it to be honest, but so someone's addicted to that morning routine and they come to you and they become a client.

[00:12:45] JAMES: How do you get them to break that cycle and get into the routine of. I don't know, maybe cold shower and then they come in, they've had their breakfast, then they have their coffee. Is it a slow process or do you just say, right, that's it, cold turkey. 

[00:12:58] ERIN: I'm never, [00:13:00] I'm never militant with my clients ever because I'm also human and the I also understand that, you know, when we make changes, that they don't need to happen overnight and it certainly doesn't usually feel good to our nervous system or mental health wise when someone says, just cut it out.

[00:13:17] ERIN: And now, don't get me wrong, I've got clients that are all or nothing and they just, when I tell them generally what I've just told you, they'll say, forget it, I'm cutting it out. I want to do this, I want to do it perfectly, that's type of person. Right. So when we, when we start, you know, I, I get to know what their relationship is like.

[00:13:36] ERIN: I had a client one time and she had this, you know, whole setup in her house. The whole side of the wall was dedicated to coffee. So for the client like that, we're going to say, okay, you know, let's. Maybe switch to a decaf or switch to, you know, less of a serving and put more, you know, almond milk in it to just cut down on the, on the portion.

[00:13:56] ERIN: And then we, we work our way towards, uh, maybe after [00:14:00] breakfast, but there's lots of alternative things that you can do to still have that routine. So I'll, I'll just give my example. I drink a bone broth, hot chocolate in the morning and that bone broth, hot chocolate. It doesn't, you know, contain loads of caffeine.

[00:14:16] ERIN: It's still got the gut health benefits. It's still bitter because of the cacao. And so I drink that it's got 20 grams of protein and it's warm and it's, it still gives me that so people can find, you know, there's all these like, you know, medicinal mushroom type of blends and things like that. So if you can find something that you like.

[00:14:36] ERIN: That isn't that, you know, bursts of caffeine and acidity to your stomach on an empty stomach, then that might help the transition be a little bit easier. Thank 

[00:14:46] JAMES: you so much for that example. Mark, who's one of the hosts here at the podcast studio has bone broth and cayenne pepper. Okay. There you go. In the morning.

[00:14:56] JAMES: Yep. And bizarrely, I was speaking to him on Tuesday because we're [00:15:00] planning for the week and we're talking about you. Um, and I said, cause he was drinking in the same type of Yeti coffee mug as me. And I was like, Oh, nice mug. Like you're one of the good guys. Um, is that a coffee? He explained that no, it was just his bone broth and it's part of his routine to get, you know, great nutrition and in the morning and it's still warm.

[00:15:18] JAMES: And as you say, it sort of feels like a coffee, but it's not really a coffee. So. Um, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to start my day with some bone broth. 

[00:15:27] ERIN: I expect a report back. I'd love to hear from you. 

[00:15:31] JAMES: I'll give you a report. I can't promise to stop the coffee. That's not the goal. I might go from two shots to one shot.

[00:15:39] JAMES: I think two shots to one shot. That's success. You know, you mentioned the health benefits of coffee. It's really interesting. I've had several people come on. So one of them was Professor Debbie Shawcross, who's like a leading authority on, on liver health, basically saying drink more coffee because for some reason it's protective [00:16:00] against, um, cirrhosis and, uh, non alcoholic fatty changes.

[00:16:05] JAMES: So there's, there's something in there, isn't there? 

[00:16:06] ERIN: This, I think there's so many, there's so many asks. Aspects of it. I think, you know, you and I are big into gut health, right? So we're probably gonna always look at it from a gut health lens. And, you know, my scientific brain goes to, well, you know, coffee helps people have a bowel movement, right?

[00:16:22] ERIN: It stimulates the liver and digestion. And if we're having regular bowel movements and, and stimulating that process, that's great for the liver, right? We don't want, that's good. You know, sluggish digestion. So just one of the many, I mean, there's, there's antioxidants in there, there's. The polyphenols that feed beneficial bacteria and you know, the liver and the gut are most certainly connected.

[00:16:48] JAMES: So could you maybe walk the listeners through some of the other things you try and help your clients with? So you mentioned stress, diet, maybe we can unpack diet a little bit more because that must be huge. We hear. In terms [00:17:00] of. You know, taking control of your health and your microbiome and your gut.

[00:17:04] ERIN: Sure. Yeah. As a dietician, you know, people expect that we just focus on food and we, we often do. There's not usually one client that comes in that there's not something diet related that we're talking about and everyone's starting at different ends of the spectrum, right? Some people have no knowledge that.

[00:17:23] ERIN: You know, they're not even getting nearly enough protein. They're not eating any vegetables, you know, that, that kind of standard American diet where a lot of processed foods, you know, a lot of refined grains that aren't providing any fiber or nutrition. So there's so many different ends of the spectrum of things that we work on.

[00:17:41] ERIN: And then you have, you know, clients who have overgrowth or SIBO, like SIBO, for example, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and they're eating super clean. You know, air quote clean, where they're not touching your processed food. They're loading up on fiber because they've been told, [00:18:00] fiber, fiber, fiber, if you want better gut health, eat more fiber.

[00:18:04] ERIN: And that's making them feel worse. So there's that end of the spectrum where we have to. obviously address the underlying root cause, but we need to simplify their diet, make it easy for them to break things down a little bit, give their gut some rest. And then there's the other spectrum where, you know, I have a woman come to me and she's eating one egg for breakfast.

[00:18:25] ERIN: And I'm saying, where's your protein? She said, well, I haven't had an egg for breakfast. I said, well, one egg is six grams of protein. We need 25 or 30 grams of protein to start our day. Right? So there's, there's all these missing links. 

[00:18:42] JAMES: We've talked about breakfast quite a lot then because as you know, within the sort of wellness health sphere, there's this debate around intermittent fasting and it sounds like you're very much in favor of, you should have a really great nutritious breakfast with macronutrients to set you up [00:19:00] for the day.

[00:19:01] JAMES: Is that the case? So you're big, big on breakfast for you and your clients. 

[00:19:06] ERIN: So for me, yes, I, I've always tried to adopt that my philosophy on my own nutrition and what I think makes me feel best is not going to determine what I think is best for a client. And I think that's really important. I think a lot of, you know, health professionals, it's, you know, they find something that works for them or works for some of their clients and then everyone should do it.

[00:19:28] ERIN: Now. Do I often, would I recommend intermittent fasting to people? No, it wouldn't be my first recommendation for the majority of people that I work with. I have worked with clients and most of those clients end up being males who do really well with intermittent fasting. Maybe it's males or oftentimes it's women who are post menopause and they have specific goals, maybe related to body composition and hormone balance.

[00:19:55] ERIN: And they found that these practices of intermittent fasting in whatever [00:20:00] fashion make them feel really good. A lot of these are CEOs of companies that like, they love the focus aspect of it during the day. And, you know, so I'm just going to come in and I'm going to work with them and say, Well, if this works for you and you're not, Uh, binge eating at night and feeling like you're deprived during the day and you're getting good nutrition and you're fast, you're feeding window, then I'll work with you.

[00:20:23] ERIN: We'll work with where you're at. But the majority of my clients, you know, especially those that are female and they're still cycling, this can really disrupt their hormones. It can disrupt their ability to work out during the day. And so we have to really personalize that if it's going to be part of the protocol and, and the research that I've seen, my biggest concern is the body composition.

[00:20:46] ERIN: I've seen the loss of muscle mass be a potential and I think that's a huge issue for a lot of people, right? We all need nice lean muscle mass and if fasting, you know, if we continue to see research that [00:21:00] fasting negatively impacts our lean muscle tissue, I don't love 

[00:21:04] JAMES: that. Yeah. I mean, intuitively it makes sense, right?

[00:21:08] JAMES: You stop consuming calories, you've got no protein intake, therefore there's no amino acids moving around. So it kind of makes sense that your body is going to look for energy. Yeah. And I guess muscle is, is, is a target is probably less desirable than, than fat and certainly your glycogen stores kind of make sense that it forms part of that source of energy that we need.

[00:21:32] JAMES: Our bodies are incredible. I'm just on the muscle mass thing. Oh yeah, absolutely. And on the muscle mass thing then, you know, I guess maybe some women listeners might think. It doesn't really apply to me. You know, that's for men that lift and train and work out, but that's not the case, is it? It's, it's just as important, maybe even more important.

[00:21:54] JAMES: I, 

[00:21:55] ERIN: I'm a, I'm not a buff woman. Okay. I, I [00:22:00] get, you know, up to 130 grams of protein per day. And I'm not, you know, what, what people, a lot of women would think I would turn into by eating as much protein as I do. But I will tell you. Some things about me is that I'm very strong, very strong in the gym. I have a good lean body mass My hormones are balanced.

[00:22:20] ERIN: I don't have cravings for sugar throughout the day. Those are the things that protein does for us. And so I think we need to understand that from a, you know, biochemical aspect, protein is essential. It is protective. It increases our metabolism. It's the only macronutrient that has a higher thermic effect of food like that.

[00:22:41] ERIN: That's incredible. So we, you know, just old school recommendations that always seem to sneak their way into further generation. 

[00:22:50] JAMES: So, um, how does someone know, I mean, if they're not got the benefit of working with an expert dietitian like you, how do they know if they're on the right track for protein? And in [00:23:00] addition to like the actual macronutrient gram per day recommendations, how important is the source of protein for people?

[00:23:07] ERIN: Hmm, that's a great question. So we have two different types of protein. We have a complete protein, which is basically a protein that combines all of the essential amino acids, which amino acids are the little building blocks of what protein is. And essential, meaning our body needs them to survive and to produce the daily functions and live optimally.

[00:23:30] ERIN: So that's, that's an essential amino acid. That's a, that's a complete protein. Those Food sources are things like meat, fish, eggs. These are animal proteins. And then you have the incomplete side where we have incomplete, and these are going to be plant based foods. There are a few plant based foods that are complete proteins, but the majority, things like beans and lentils, these are not complete proteins.

[00:23:55] ERIN: So they're just missing a few of those amino acids that we need for [00:24:00] essential daily living. Now, this doesn't mean that non complete proteins are not beneficial, but the requirement of how much you would need per day slightly goes up because the digestibility, how able we are to digest these proteins, is not as efficient, you know, if you were to eat eggs or a piece of fish, for example.

[00:24:24] ERIN: So my approach is try to get some really good quality complete proteins in your diet and also get some incomplete protein sources in your diet, like lentils and beans and nuts and seeds, if that's something that works with, you know, your individualized physiology. But this idea that everything has to be a complete protein, I think is also, you know, too far left because, you know, bone broth isn't a complete protein, but it's still an excellent source of protein.

[00:24:53] ERIN: And I'm still going to have, you know, salmon for dinner, and I'm going to hit my Total, you know, amino acid needs for [00:25:00] the day, if you will, 

[00:25:01] JAMES: and the total amino acid needs for the day. How does one calculate what they may or may not need? 

[00:25:07] ERIN: That's a great question. So the amino acids themselves, you could use something like I think chronometer might do this on a very, you know, specific level.

[00:25:17] ERIN: I don't know if it goes that into detail, but we look at the total grams of protein as a dietitian, you know, so we're looking for Usually around 1.2, up to two kilograms, sorry, grams per kilogram per day of protein for each person. So the minimum, like the USDA requirements for protein, we're talking 0.8 grams per kilogram per day for a person.

[00:25:43] ERIN: Uh, however you need to convert that, but it's what 0. 8 is not a recommendation I use for any of my clients. We're always going above that, especially when my clients are more active or they're looking to optimize their body composition. We're looking closer to like, uh, up to one [00:26:00] to two grams per kilogram.

[00:26:03] ERIN: So that's your, that's your goal is to really figure out like what is that number for you based on your body weight and then how can you spread that throughout the day. You know, you don't have to completely spread it evenly, but I usually just tell people to make it easier. Get 25 to 30 grams at each meal and then adjust, you know, add to that to meet your needs and then add snacks where appropriate.

[00:26:27] ERIN: But that's a good baseline if they're kind of starting from ground zero. 

[00:26:32] JAMES: That's an amazing summary of protein. Thank you so much. How do supplements fit into that? And I'm asking you in the context of this minimally processed versus like ultra processed food debate we have all the time. So some people say, Oh yeah, whey protein supplement contains the essential amino acids.

[00:26:50] JAMES: Go for it. But other people say, Whoa, it's so processed you shouldn't have it. So what are your thoughts then, um, on supplements and How do [00:27:00] they fit in? 

[00:27:01] ERIN: I think supplements can be great. I think they have a time and a place and you know, a lot of the time is convenience is, is a big reason, you know, for somebody that has a protein goal of 180 grams per day.

[00:27:15] ERIN: You know, meeting that might be really challenging if they're not throwing in some whey protein into a smoothie or a shake. Whey protein is excellent. Yes, it's processed, but so is your oatmeal and your brown rice and your ground meat. Like everything is processed. And if you choose grass fed, you know, protein powder, a whey protein powder with minimal ingredients that maybe just has whey, maybe some, you know, sweetener and something to Add some salt or whatnot.

[00:27:43] ERIN: But if you have like a three ingredient protein powder, it's high quality grass fed, and you add that to your smoothie, you're doing wonderful things for your body. So I think it, it really comes into when you see these, you know, those, you know, body building companies always start these protein [00:28:00] powders and it's , you know, strawberry cheesecake or cookie dough.

[00:28:03] ERIN: Yeah. And. I used to eat these. I'm not, I'm not saying I've never tried them. They do taste good. They do. They taste just like they say they do, or at least when you're, you know, eating healthy, they do. And, you know, that's when we get into the long list of ingredients. We see, you know, binders and gums and artificial sweeteners.

[00:28:24] ERIN: And we see, you know, things that can really not make us feel good, especially from a gut health perspective. So a good quality You know, one that's been maybe tested for heavy metals, things like lead that can be common in plant based protein powders, arsenic. If we get a good quality protein powder, minimal ingredients, uh, high quality testing, ask for the certificate of analysis from the company.

[00:28:51] ERIN: Then, you know, you're, you're, you're gonna help yourself out if you're struggling to get your protein intake. Thank you for 

[00:28:57] JAMES: that. I've, I've got so many things written down to ask, you know, I'm [00:29:00] actually not even sure where to start. Fibers, gum, sweeteners, heavy, heavy metals, other macronutrients. Before I jump into sort of more supplements and sweeteners and the heavy metals, I'd kind of like to.

[00:29:16] JAMES: Round off the diet piece with you more generally. So maybe talk a little bit about fiber, um, fruit and veg, talk about carbs and fats. Yes. You know, when you're working with all your clients and for yourself as well, how do you build like an optimal diet? Big question. 

[00:29:35] ERIN: Yes. No, it's, it's a great one. How do you create like an optimal regime?

[00:29:38] ERIN: Absolutely. So we start with again, base, like we kind of find this base for people to start. And that's where the three meals per day comes in. You know, if someone's not used to eating breakfast, we're going to try to get them to start eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner, or we can call it meal one, meal two, meal three, whatever your schedule is like.

[00:29:56] ERIN: And at that meal, we're aiming to get again, that 25 to 30 grams of [00:30:00] protein. We want to hit. half a plate of vegetables that are colorful, usually like darker leafy greens tend to be an area that a lot of people struggle. So we try to look for those dark pigments. And then the other portion of that, usually I say like a fist of carbohydrates minimum at your meal.

[00:30:18] ERIN: And we try to choose carbohydrates every meal and we try to choose carbohydrates that are more complex. So things like. higher fiber carbs. So if you're looking at a label, you're going to see fiber there. But if you're just in the produce section and you're looking at carbohydrate sources, potatoes have fiber, both sweet and white potatoes.

[00:30:37] ERIN: Uh, things like quinoa, plantains, bananas. These are all sources of carbohydrates that are very nutrient dense. If a client's more active, those carbohydrates Intakes might go up. We might be consuming more carbohydrates per day. Um, and then fat is, is incorporated into those meals. We, we try to focus on healthy fats, particularly omega [00:31:00] 3 fats.

[00:31:00] ERIN: So things like wild caught salmon, we're looking at things like mackerel, sardines, herring. These are omega 3 rich fats that we have to get two to three servings per week. So we've got three meals per day, protein, vegetable, carbohydrate, healthy fats included. And then, then we kind of go from there. We say, okay, are you working out?

[00:31:22] ERIN: Okay, well, we need a pre workout, post workout routine. And how can we adjust there? Um, you know, you're training for a marathon. Okay, your carbohydrate needs go up significantly. We're going to have to adjust that. But once we have that base, you know, and, and You don't have to focus so much on the grams of fiber, although we are aiming for about 25 to 35 grams per day, if you're choosing complex carbs, if you're choosing half your plate of vegetables, then you're likely going to hit your fiber needs for the most part.

[00:31:53] JAMES: It's going to happen, right? It's going to happen just by default, you know, because it's quite difficult to [00:32:00] find the fiber on the foods and to figure out. 

[00:32:04] ERIN: Yeah. And if you're focusing on it, we're 

[00:32:08] JAMES: sorry, there's a bit of a, a bit of a, a like you. Please continue, please. 

[00:32:13] ERIN: No, no. I was just going to say, so if you're focusing on getting the majority of your foods from less processed foods, then you're again, likely to hit those fiber goals because you're going to be choosing those types of fruits and vegetables and things like that that just naturally come with, you know, the, the benefit of the fiber.

[00:32:33] JAMES: Absolutely. I'm going to just push you a little bit, um, on. Ketogenic diets and people even go more extreme and they have these um, carnivore diets. They're great. And you've been quite clear in your recommendation around you should have some carbohydrate with each meal. So, could we just unpack that a little bit and what some of the, you know, why is that part of your recommendation versus, you know, just eat meat and [00:33:00] veg, for example?

[00:33:01] ERIN: Mm hmm. So, the, the main focus there is blood sugar balance and this is something that people think this is a discussion just reserved for people who have, say, diabetes. You know, oh, well, you know, they gotta watch their blood sugar and, you know, gotta make sure they don't eat too many carbohydrates. But the reality is, is we all should care about blood sugar.

[00:33:22] ERIN: Blood sugar impacts our cardiovascular system. It impacts our mental health, it impacts our hormones, it impacts our muscle growth and maintenance. So having stable blood sugar throughout the day is absolutely key to optimal performance, energy, all those things that we're talking about. And so being able to get a steady adequate amount consistent throughout the day is going to allow that blood sugar to just kind of have this nice little up and down throughout the day.

[00:33:52] ERIN: And we're going to stay within this nice range that the body likes to stay in for optimal health. When you go get your blood work done and you get your [00:34:00] hemoglobin A1C tested, that's your report card of how well you've been managing That blood sugar over the past three months, how well you've been staying within that range.

[00:34:10] ERIN: And when you don't eat carbs for breakfast, and you don't eat carbs for lunch, and then you have a carb dinner, you're more likely to see a larger spike in those blood glucose levels. Again, this isn't the case for everybody. If somebody has been on a low carb diet, and they've maintained that, and their blood sugar is great, and they're feeling awesome, I'm so happy for them, and I would support them in that way.

[00:34:34] ERIN: But for the majority of us, We have these habits where our carbs are not distributed properly. We're not eating the right amount. We're either eating too much in one sitting, not enough at one sitting, and we're wondering why we're craving sugar all the time, and why we're tired all the time. And if we just got high quality carbohydrates at every meal in adequate amounts, not overdoing it, not underdoing it, [00:35:00] we might find a really healthy balance.

[00:35:02] ERIN: And not to mention, the trouble with those low carb diets is the number one symptom is constipation. Because These carbohydrates feed our beneficial bacteria. I probably see 10 to 15 stool tests per week, and any time I see someone come in with a carnivore, keto, low carb diet, they have very low beneficial bacteria.

[00:35:30] ERIN: And it is pretty much causation, right? We can pretty much assume that the correlation there is because they're not So, my theory, you know, the, the keto diet, it's originally designed for, for medical purposes, and it's incredible for, you know, patients who are diagnosed with a, a type of epilepsy, and it has, been proven to And, uh, yeah, I mean, I don't [00:36:00] think that the majority of the United States needs to be on a carnivore or ketogenic diet, especially long term.

[00:36:08] ERIN: We don't really know the long term effects of eating, you know, a ketogenic carnivore diet. it's, You know, I suspect that a lot of people that have found that they feel so good on those diets could be because they have an underlying gut imbalance, and now they're not feeding it with any fiber, any carbs, and that's kind of maintained their symptoms, so they feel really good.

[00:36:36] ERIN: And that's, that's just a theory, it's just my thought, you know, that a lot of people find those diets because they're looking for relief and to feel good, and Ultimately, we all want to feel good, right? But if we're not addressing a root cause, then that, that's a, that's a problem, especially if it, it forces you to be on that restrictive of the diet.

[00:36:57] ERIN: I 

[00:36:57] JAMES: mean, the way I like to describe the carnivore diets [00:37:00] to some people is you're essentially starving your microbiome. Yeah. It's not getting anything that it needs, really. I mean, there's, there's some microbes that can metabolize amino acids, um, and, and maybe some more complex chains and proteins, but it's, as you mentioned, it's really the fibers.

[00:37:23] JAMES: It's the complex carbohydrates that they really, truly need. 

[00:37:27] ERIN: Yeah, there's, there's a few specific bacteria that the few specific bacteria, the Fecalobacterium Presnitzii. Uh, the aphromancia, these are two keystone, I'm sure you're familiar with them, they're two keystone bacteria in our gut. And one of the things that they thrive on is polyphenol rich foods.

[00:37:47] ERIN: Polyphenol rich foods are going to be things like our berries, our, you know, pomegranates and grapes and those, those dark pigmented. fruits and, uh, leafy green vegetables, which wouldn't essentially be [00:38:00] allowed on some of those diets. And those are keys on species for protecting our gut lining for protecting us against things like inflammatory bowel disease.

[00:38:10] ERIN: So I just, I don't know how you could convince me that a diet void of all these amazing foods and mentally for myself, I could never, you know, that's just. No, it's not for me. 

[00:38:26] JAMES: I've got a note to ask you about your diet and your routine in this totality, but just like to explore this, this fiber concept a little bit more.

[00:38:34] JAMES: So one of the things that you said at the start, which I think was absolutely fascinating and you just touched on that again with people getting relief. I think maybe you're talking about the SIBO and how things are just going a bit crazy and counterintuitively, whilst perhaps in someone who doesn't have SIBO and who's functioning correctly otherwise, fibre is brilliant.

[00:38:57] JAMES: For them, who've got too many bugs in the [00:39:00] upper GI tract, maybe fibre's not so good. So maybe you can walk the listener through that and Also, how you help these people get them to a state where maybe they can tolerate 

[00:39:08] ERIN: fiber again. Yes. And, and this would go for, you know, certain condition as patients who have inflammatory bowel diseases.

[00:39:16] ERIN: Well, you know, if they're dealing with a lot of chronic inflammation, again, fiber is hard to break down. And that's part of what makes it good for healthy individuals, is that it's hard to break down. We don't digest a good majority of it, therefore it feeds our beneficial bacteria. But for those who are struggling, those who really find that, you know, they start to eat.

[00:39:37] ERIN: a salad and it completely destroys them or, you know, the thought of any sort of vegetable on their plate is a nightmare. Then we're basically going to go forward and do some sort of testing. So the gold standard for the the SIBO is going to be a breath test. We're going to be testing for three types of gases, methane, hydrogen, and hydrogen sulfide.

[00:39:58] ERIN: And then we're [00:40:00] also probably going to do a GI map to look at overgrowths in the colon, the lower part of the digestive tract as well. And If that person has a lot of overgrowth, then typically the course of action is going to be some sort of antimicrobial. And that could be either you could go to your conventional medicine doctor and you could choose to go that route, or you could choose to take the more natural route and use things like berberine, allicin, grapefruit seed extract, neem.

[00:40:32] ERIN: These are all natural antimicrobials that have been shown to be very effective at, killing off harmful bacteria, both in the small intestine and the large intestine. And it's not just as simple as killing them off, right? We want to figure out what else is going on. You know, are they super stressed all the time?

[00:40:50] ERIN: Do they have low stomach acid? Are they on a proton pump inhibitor, which is again, further reducing their stomach acid. We also want to look at the whole picture so [00:41:00] that this doesn't happen again. Cause the number one thing with SIBO is that people have reoccurrence because they just go in. They say, let's kill this off, but they don't address the fact that they have motility issues, thyroid issues, you know, stress that is just like, unbearable, and then they wonder why it comes back.

[00:41:21] ERIN: So that's the, that's the big thing with addressing the gut is that we don't, we don't hone in on one specific thing. It's not as simple as like, oh, vitamin D is low, we, we increase it or. You know, it's, it's okay. So how did we get here? This is your gut is like a forest, right? You go into a forest and you just pull one thing out.

[00:41:39] ERIN: You still have the whole forest there. 

[00:41:42] JAMES: So how do you then in your practice help your patients with SIBO? Do you recommend the berberine, the grapefruit extract, that kind of thing? And have you had good success with people? 

[00:41:52] ERIN: Yes. Yes. So I, those are the herbs that I like to use. Those are a few of the evidence based herbs that have been very [00:42:00] effective with my patients.

[00:42:01] ERIN: And I've seen a lot of my clients get better with just a few rounds of these. Some, they do one round and we've addressed everything else and they're totally better. Some of my clients have had to go through two or three rounds of it to really fully get rid of it. But we'll retest it. We'll continually see those levels go down and down and down.

[00:42:21] ERIN: And it's just, it's amazing to, to see people feel better. You start to see. Their iron labs start to go up because they start absorbing their nutrients, their vitamin D levels start to go up, you know, it's, it's a fascinating, you know, uh, progression of how people can be impacted by, by SIBO and for so long, you know, the, the, the statistics show that about 70 people who are, who are diagnosed with IBS actually have SIBO and they'll go their whole lives not knowing that because they're just going to say, well, I've got IBS.

[00:42:56] ERIN: It's gotta, you know, be careful, follow a little FODMAP diet, and they don't ever [00:43:00] think to look further. And most doctors, some of them don't even, you know, we were talking about belief systems. Some of them don't believe that SIBO is a thing when it's clinically documented. So 

[00:43:12] JAMES: still to this day, to this day, for sure, it's still not widely accepted amongst the medical community.

[00:43:20] JAMES: And some of the things you're talking about in terms of. Using these, you know, natural means rather than the classical antimicrobials. Also, we're just not there yet, I don't think. What's your 

[00:43:32] ERIN: experience? Yeah. And there's a lot of great doctors out there, especially gastroenterologists. And uh, I can't give you a long list of them, of great doctors that I know, but I can give you, um, you know, some experiences from clients who their doctors are, are really open to, they have a good understanding.

[00:43:52] ERIN: You know, they, they see this in their practice every day. Uh, a lot of the doctors that say they don't believe in it, you know, they're, they're a [00:44:00] little outdated, right? They haven't been keeping up on the research. They have not been seeing patients and, and truly hearing them for what their symptoms are.

[00:44:08] ERIN: And I think that, that there actually is, uh, a large amount of. Uh, physicians out there who are, are truly taking it seriously and treating and they're very, you know, there's a lot of doctors who are very quick to treat for, for SIGO with antibiotics and they do recognize how important it is. But, you know, it's just unfortunate that there are some out there that are leaving patients, you know, feeling very defeated.

[00:44:35] JAMES: And with regards to the herbs that you recommend, is there like, this is the entrepreneur in me now, just my mind's going, is there like, you know, one supplement that has all the key elements in terms of all the herbs that have been beneficial or do you ask your patients while just. Maybe try a bit of the, the grape for effect, maybe try a bit of the berberine and see what happens.

[00:44:56] ERIN: Yes, that's a great question. There, there are [00:45:00] formulations of herbs out there that are designed or supplements out there that are designed specifically for SIBO. So they'll usually have a combination of. You know, some of those more broad spectrum antimicrobials, I typically use them in a more isolated fashion because I love using tinctures.

[00:45:18] ERIN: I like to try to reduce the amount of pills that a client will take. So oftentimes, you know, it will be like. Three times a day, you're doing your drops of oregano, your drops of neem, and then we'll do a berberine in a pill form. And, you know, we do that for a course of four to six weeks, and then we reassess symptoms.

[00:45:35] ERIN: But there are, there are formulations out there. There's ones that are even more broad spectrum that, you know, are gonna have additional things like wormwood in them, and Uh, you know, things that can address yeast and candida, you know, knowing that those things can sometimes coexist, but the benefit of my practice is that I'm able to test with coins and I'm able to see, like, okay, how can we really hone in on this and instead of doing [00:46:00] this broad, you know, formulation, we do something much more specific to what you need.

[00:46:05] JAMES: Yeah, my brain was just ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And also, I was wondering That's just how it works in my brain. The, the tests that you do, I'm also fascinated. So I'm, I'm very familiar with the hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen methane, because Um, and terabiotics is actually going to be doing a clinical trial, uh, in the IBS area.

[00:46:24] JAMES: So I've been reading all about IBSC IBSD, post infectious SIBO and so on. Um, but I wondered because what you're talking about, it's fascinating, it's, it's a combination of the breath test. It's a combination of the stool test. So do you have providers that you go to and that you trust to give you the right kind of data, or do patients come to you having done a microbiome test?

[00:46:46] JAMES: Like at home. Mm hmm. 

[00:46:48] ERIN: Yes. So the majority of, of what I will have clients do with their providers is have their standard colonoscopy, endoscopy, get their blood work done. If they [00:47:00] can get, you know, the things that I like to see, like the ferritin, iron, B12, vitamin D. Uh, so I'll usually have them do that just because it's covered by insurance, right?

[00:47:09] ERIN: We try to save clients as much money as possible knowing that these types of cases can be, you know, more intensive and, and costly. And so the stuff that we will do together, luckily as a dietician, we have, uh, different resources where I have an ordering physician on my team who can order the labs for me.

[00:47:30] ERIN: And I've been trained to evaluate and interpret these labs over the past 10 years. And so I get these results, we sit down, we go over them together, and you know, we either work with their physician or just on our own, depending on how willing their, their other providers are. We try to work as a team to help this client get better in whatever way that looks like for them.

[00:47:54] JAMES: Got it. Thank you. I just wondered if there was like a. Best in class microbiome testing service [00:48:00] that you just thought was unbelievably good. That gave you so many insights. Yeah, 

[00:48:04] ERIN: I, yes, much more simple. I will answer that more simply here. So the, I love the GI map. I've been using the GI map by diagnostic solutions for several years.

[00:48:16] ERIN: I also love, uh, Jenova. That's another really great one. Um, sometimes that might be a better fit for a client based on kind of their symptomatology. But those are really the two main ones. And then, you know, the breath test, I use the TrioSmart because they do all three of the, the, the breath gases versus, you know, if you go get it done in your conventional doctor, they're likely just going to test for the hydrogen and the methane and they might miss the hydrogen sulfide.

[00:48:46] ERIN: No affiliations with the brands. Thank you. 

[00:48:51] JAMES: Thank you for that. Um, you got quite excited when you talked about vitamin D, iron, and ferritin. Can you just like maybe unpack that a little bit? Why is that so important? [00:49:00] 

[00:49:00] ERIN: These are basic, you know, labs that should be run for all of us. And I laugh about it because it's so frustrating how it's like pulling teeth with providers that you want to know what your vitamin D levels are.

[00:49:14] ERIN: Especially when we're in New England over here. So we're not getting UVB rays from the sun to produce vitamin D on our skin for a very large portion of the year. And also just scientifically knowing that 90 percent of Americans are deficient in vitamin D. Vitamin D impacts our hormones, our mental health, our risk for inflammatory bowel disease, everything.

[00:49:35] ERIN: It quite literally impacts everything. Uh, so vitamin D, I always have clients advocate for that. And if it's not done over here in the U. S. as a standard blood panel. Iron is another one. Iron typically is tested, but ferritin, the storage form of iron, is not always tested. And this can tell us a lot about inflammation in the body.

[00:49:56] ERIN: This can tell us a lot about our body's ability to absorb [00:50:00] iron. So that one is another one. Especially, I work with a lot of athletes, especially endurance athletes, and they tend to be very low in ferritin. And so, you know, if a provider saw, oh, in 2017, your iron looked good, they're not going to test it again.

[00:50:15] ERIN: And, you know, hello, it's 2024. Things can change pretty quickly. So, I like ferritin. I also like B12. Both B12, ferritin, vitamin D can tell us that there maybe is malabsorption going on related to SIBO. So, these are things that are common deficiencies that I see in my practice. You know, we should just be knowing regularly what our values are.

[00:50:39] JAMES: Got it. Are there any other blood tests that you recommend for the sort of general person? Um, and I'm assuming you recommend vitamin D supplementation. 

[00:50:49] ERIN: Yep. If you are deficient in vitamin D to a point where, you know, you're getting into the twenties and lower. You're not going to be able to eat food and get your values back [00:51:00] up.

[00:51:00] ERIN: You're going to need to supplement unless you're living in a place where it's very sunny And it's very clear that you've been hibernating and lathering the sunscreen and then you can change that habit But the majority of people in order to get their vitamin D levels back up will need to supplement So that's really important for people to know and you always want to take vitamin D 3 plus K 2 K 2 It prevents us from absorbing too much calcium into our, um, the vascular system, which can increase your risk for cardiovascular disease.

[00:51:32] ERIN: So vitamin D3 plus K2, always have that combination together and just make sure that you're advocating for it. If you have a deficiency in vitamin D, you're going to need to supplement. There's very few food sources of vitamin D. And those really aren't likely to move the needle if you have a deficiency.

[00:51:51] JAMES: And on the subject of supplements, do you recommend anything else? Like, for example, a greens powder, which are all the rage at the moment. 

[00:51:59] ERIN: Yeah, [00:52:00] I, I don't recommend those supplements. You know, there, there's, um. There's some out there, you know, there's ones that I've taken that I feel really good on, you know, the, the athletic greens was a big, it, it blew up and I, you know, they sent me a sample and I thought, oh, you know, this is like another greens powder and I'll be honest, I felt really good.

[00:52:20] ERIN: You know, I'm not going to lie to people. I felt really good when I took it. And that could be due to the fact that it's basically like a multivitamin. And it's got adaptogens like ashwagandha, which I love ashwagandha. And, you know, it was great. I was taking it for a little while. And then, you know, consumer labs came out.

[00:52:38] ERIN: They, they independently tested all of these greens powders. And they found higher levels of lead in a lot of them, which something that just naturally occurs in the soil. You know, plants are growing, they absorb these heavy metals from the soil. And lead is not good for us. As someone might imagine, that getting lead in, in [00:53:00] higher doses regularly, ideally we want no lead.

[00:53:03] ERIN: But we're always going to be exposed to some level of heavy metals. But when you take something and you concentrate it down, that means you're going to get a larger dose in a small serving. And so, you know, certain brands that I mentioned, like You know were above the limit that I would consider safe to consume on a regular basis for optimal health And so I wow, you know stopped using that and I you know, I I really caution My clients to be using these powders You know, even if they are passing heavy metal testing, you know, they're, they're not a replacement for food.

[00:53:36] ERIN: You know, if someone's really struggling, they might offer some assistance. There are certain fruit and vegetable capsules out there that have passed heavy metal testing, you know, don't have any fillers in them. Um, the brand like Juice Plus, for example, over here in the U S you know, they, they seem to kind of pass with flying colors.

[00:53:55] ERIN: So I would say. You know, I think of someone like my grandmother who, you know, [00:54:00] she maybe eats, like, two meals a day, if even that, and she doesn't touch fruits or vegetables. She might be a good candidate for someone to take these fruit and veggie capsules, just to get something in her body, but For the majority of us, you know, we don't need 17 different, you know, powders and vitamins in one sitting.

[00:54:20] ERIN: First of all, it's really tough for our body to absorb that all in one. So you've got that aspect of it, where are you really getting all the nutrients out of it? Number two is the heavy metals. And number three is there's typically lots of additives to them, artificial sweeteners and flavors and, and things like that.

[00:54:37] ERIN: So I, I don't, you know, I don't recommend them, but I'm sure there are times and places for, for those and in people's lives, but the majority of us should be just focusing on high quality foods from our diet. Aaron, this 

[00:54:50] JAMES: has been such a, an educational journey for me, uh, in addition to the listener, cause I also.

[00:54:55] JAMES: take AG1 once or twice a day and have done for quite a long time. [00:55:00] Also a powder called Vibey Greens. And I had no idea about the heavy metal piece. Just no idea. And to be honest with you, I actually don't know that much about heavy metals and how they can impact on health. So could we talk about that for a little bit?

[00:55:19] JAMES: Like How do we know if we're have, you know, if we've got too many heavy metals, what's the health and impacts of heavy metals? And then if there's too many and it's having an health impact, what do we do? 

[00:55:35] ERIN: So heavy metals. Each different type of heavy metal, from lead to arsenic to cadmium, those are two very those are three very common heavy metals that we typically see in supplements, powders, even chocolate.

[00:55:49] ERIN: We see high levels of lead, unfortunately. Big chocolate fan over here, so, trust me, I'm not Nooooo! You're like, you're taking away my coffee and now my [00:56:00] chocolate. No, but what's going 

[00:56:01] JAMES: on here? But again, my AG1 and coffee, now my 

[00:56:04] ERIN: chocolate. So again, like I will use AG1 if I know I'm going out and I'm going to have a really long run.

[00:56:10] ERIN: You know that that's that's the kind of thing I'm trying to really educate clients on is like I'm not taking it every day But I'm not never using it because I like the way it makes me feel I'm also consuming chocolate regularly But I'm choosing brands that are at least not the highest in lead and I'm moderating my intake But I probably eat chocolate at least three to four times a week.

[00:56:31] ERIN: Like I'm not gonna lie. It's just You know, you can't avoid all of these things, but you know, there are some that are avoidable that are just, you know, we're getting too much and that could be impacting certain people. So you know, heavy metals can impact all of our organs. A lot of them can accumulate in our body and it's really hard to get rid of.

[00:56:49] ERIN: Some are actually impossible to get rid of. So the kidneys can be affected. The gut can be affected. The liver, right? We can have this buildup of these heavy metals. And then on top of [00:57:00] that, if you have an unhealthy gut, then you're more likely to have these accumulate because if you have that intestinal permeability where things can move from your gut into your blood because you have leaky gut, you're in a, you're in a worse shape to be consuming these heavy metal, you know, containing products.

[00:57:17] ERIN: But generally speaking, they have, they have widespread impact on our health from our brain health to our, our organ function. And over time, this can be very serious for people and it's, it's hard to say, you know, okay, look for these symptoms, it's, it's, you know, the, the, this happens slowly. So this could be you show up with dementia or Alzheimer's when you're, you know, 50 years old and you don't realize how much of something you've been consuming.

[00:57:43] ERIN: But there's testing that you can do. There's hair mineral analysis testing that can look at heavy metals, which can be really helpful. Um, you know, mercury is another one that will accumulate in the body. And even just reducing your high mercury fish can really help your body, um, [00:58:00] work more efficiently.

[00:58:01] ERIN: And then, you know, you can kind of go back to working in moderation versus. Eating high mercury tuna for lunch every day, for example, so this is a very big stressor for me is like we need to think about moderation. We don't need to fear monger people into being afraid of consuming chocolate or, you know, things like that.

[00:58:18] ERIN: It's education, making better choices. And then if you are someone who has really poor detox, methylation issues, like MTHFR mutation, poor gut health. We might need some extra support with heavy metals, so we might use certain, like, green algaes to help just pull heavy metals out of your system. Um, we might use things like NACL cysteine, which, you know, helps upregulate glutathione levels in the body.

[00:58:43] ERIN: You know, these are things that, essentially what we're doing is we're working on chelating, um, things like charcoal and, and algae, green algae vegetables. And then we're working to support the liver and, and, and all those other Um, up regulation processes that naturally happen in the body and then we [00:59:00] support the gut and we support sweating and we make sure our bowels are moving and, you know, we make sure nutrient deficiencies are addressed and that helps us just ensure that we're, you know, well oiled machines that can handle, you know, the daily toxins that we're always going to get no matter what, right?

[00:59:16] ERIN: We're always going to get these things, but how can we educate ourselves, make better choices and reduce our total heavy metal load? 

[00:59:27] JAMES: What are some of the signs and symptoms that someone might have if they're sort of high and heavy 

[00:59:31] ERIN: metals? So kidney, you know, kidney issues can be a big one. Um, having, you know, kidney.

[00:59:37] ERIN: So if you're doing blood testing or things like that, if you're, you know, consuming a lot of brown rice, very high in arsenic, um, that's something that over time, especially with smaller kids, you know, they're even more sensitive to these levels of arsenic, for example. Um, but, but kidney issues, liver issues, brain, um, if you're noticing, like I said, you know, early signs of Alzheimer's, dementia, [01:00:00] Parkinson's disease, uh, there's even, this is not my expertise, but, um, you know, a lot of dieticians who focus on the autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, um, a lot of discussion around how they have a harder time with detoxification and, and Some heavy metal accumulation.

[01:00:17] ERIN: And so, you know, refer to them for more information on that. But I've learned from other dieticians about how that can be, um, you know, a way that these types of things can show up, um, gut issues, you know, you know, heavy metals can really disrupt the gut, the gut microbiome. So. Again, there's not really like obvious symptoms for a lot of people that you would say, Oh, that's, that's gotta be heavy models.

[01:00:40] ERIN: Sometimes it's, you know, your body just kind of slowly not functioning optimally and not realizing that your total toxic burden is just too high. 

[01:00:50] JAMES: Gosh, it just made me wonder, I mean, imagine how many people with autoimmune disease, for example, may actually just be too high in, in these heavy metals. [01:01:00] It's again, I think it's one of these things where the traditional classical medical community probably aren't that interested.

[01:01:08] ERIN: Yeah, unfortunately not. And you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a very broken system overall. And, you know, I wish I had, I wish I had the solution. I wish that I could say that I could see things getting better in the future. But I think when you involve finances, when you put money into the, the picture, you know, it, the, yeah.

[01:01:30] ERIN: The priority of healthcare, uh, preventative care really just. Yeah, 

[01:01:38] JAMES: I'm with you. So I'm going to bring us back now to some of the things I've wanted to discuss with you. Um, artificial sweeteners is top of the list. So as a dietitian and expert in gut health, what are your thoughts and recommendations relating to artificial sweeteners?

[01:01:55] JAMES: Because I think this is one of the ones that comes up the most when you speak to people. Yeah. You [01:02:00] know? 

[01:02:00] ERIN: So what are your thoughts? Yeah. So I've, you know, I've done pretty extensive research on the artificial sweetener side of things. And this, this, we can also call them non nutritive sweeteners, right?

[01:02:10] ERIN: Meaning that they essentially don't provide any nutritional value to our bodies. And the goal of why people are typically using them, right, is they're trying to cut back on sugar. They want something to taste good and they don't want the, the sugar addition. And while that is very appealing and we love that idea, that sounds, you know, all in theory would be great for optimal health, but we do see some concerning research.

[01:02:34] ERIN: We see some concerning research about the. specifics on how these artificial sweeteners can impact our gut microbiome. So a lot of these are not fully digested and broken down in our gut and they can make their way further down through the digestive tract and then feed beneficial bacteria. So if you have a pre existing overgrowth, Or, you know, if you don't want these certain compounds feeding beneficial [01:03:00] bacteria, then that might be, you know, it might not be advantageous to the individual.

[01:03:05] ERIN: A lot of these artificial sweeteners also can create a lot of gas and bloating, which most people come into my office trying to avoid. And at the end of the day, like, you know, it's, it's not, they're typically not in products that are You know, a potato or a piece of fruit, you know, these are in, in products that are usually more processed, right?

[01:03:29] ERIN: They're more heavily processed, um, you know, some of those foods that, that really just aren't the first choice for what we should be making. So do I think that if you have, you know, a piece of gum once a day, you're, you're gonna destroy your gut health? No. But I think if you're putting artificial sweeteners in your coffee and then you're having a cookie with it at lunch and then at dinner you're making this, like, keto dessert with artificial sweeteners, I, I don't know that that's going to be the best choice for optimal gut health, really.

[01:03:56] ERIN: And so, you know, you, you can, you know, break down [01:04:00] each individual artificial sweetener and say, this poses this much risk and this poses that much risk. But in general, I just advise clients to really try to choose products without that, uh, try to practice moderation if you're using them, um, and, you know, pay attention to your symptoms and see, you know, how you can feel if you don't have them in your diet.

[01:04:20] JAMES: And are there any. Um, groups that are maybe better than the others. So like I've heard some people say stevia, you know, the plant based one is maybe better than aspartame and some of the sucralose, that kind of thing. Do you have a view on that based on the research you've done? 

[01:04:34] ERIN: Sure. Yes. I think the one that I'm, that I actually use the most.

[01:04:38] ERIN: is monk fruit. I've seen no negative side effects of monk fruit on the gut microbiome. I have seen, you know, actually only positive benefits, especially from like an anti diabetic standpoint, blood pressure standpoint. So I actually, I like monk fruit personally. I think that stevia can be a good choice. I think the only [01:05:00] research that I would, uh, point to was that it could potentially lower the lactobacillus bacteria in the gut.

[01:05:06] ERIN: Which, you know, is a very important type of bacteria that we have there. Um, but stevia and menthrut, you know, they're, they're quoted as being the safer choice, but you always have to look at how they're processed. You know, were they extracted using really harsh solvents like hexane? Um, and you know, you go to the store and you've seen monk fruit and then you turn around and you see monk fruit, erythritol is the second ingredient and erythritol is a sugar alcohol that causes a lot of bloating and indigestion and can really just like rip people's stomach apart.

[01:05:39] ERIN: That's what, that's what patients describe it. They're like, it feels like there's someone in there just ripping my stomach apart. So monk fruit can be great, but check your labels because a lot of them can then have additional, you know, sugar alcohols and artificial sweeteners that might really hurt your gut to quality.

[01:05:58] JAMES: Superb advice. [01:06:00] And while we're on the subject, because you mentioned gums, tell us a little bit more about gums. Yeah. And after that I'm going to ask you more about your business and your vision and how you've created your brand. I'll stop interrogating you and quizzing you about all these things, but I'm fascinated and I know the listeners are going to be fascinated as well.

[01:06:18] ERIN: Absolutely. Now, what about gums? So gums, you know, these are going to include things like, you know, Acacia gum and war gum xanthan gum. Um, I'm trying to think of other ones. Those are probably the main ones that I see in a city nowadays and you're going to start to see these in, you know, so many different products.

[01:06:35] ERIN: They might be in your toothpaste, they might be in crackers, they could be in your ice cream. And the purpose of why companies add these to your foods is because they're binding. They help to bind things together. And now that we've moved also towards this, like, gluten free, you know, era, this, you know, this area where people are choosing lower fat, lower sugar items, they're putting [01:07:00] those in to help replace What those other ingredients used to do.

[01:07:04] ERIN: So they're giving us this nice mouth feel. They're helping thicken a product when gluten's not there because gluten is great at thickening. So they're, they're in a lot of different products. You know, I even went to the grocery store last week and I was looking at sweet potato fries, thinking, you know, there shouldn't be any gums in sweet potato fries.

[01:07:23] ERIN: There were. It was, you know, just, just ridiculous how many gums we're getting in our diet, you know, from, from these more packaged items. Now, not 

[01:07:33] JAMES: all gums, sweet potato fries should just be, sorry, sweet potato fries should just be sweet potatoes. Right. 

[01:07:38] ERIN: Exactly. You know, you could put a little olive oil or you could put a little salt in there.

[01:07:41] ERIN: Like that's fine. But to put gums in there just seems, you know, ridiculous. So, you know, obviously it would just make them at home, but you know, every once in a while, it'd be nice to be able to go to the store and get a product without gums in it. So these, these products are, they, they serve [01:08:00] as prebiotics, meaning they feed beneficial bacteria in the gut.

[01:08:04] ERIN: And that can be great actually, like guar gum and Acacia gum have been. actually pretty well researched to be helpful for certain people. Um, partially hydrolyzed war gum, for example, is something that I, I actually use as a protocol sometimes when I'm treating SIBO with patients because that in combination with antimicrobials has actually been shown to be very beneficial for treating SIBO.

[01:08:28] ERIN: So not all gums are, are created equal, but most of them serve as prebiotics. Uh, they do typically alter the gut in some way, whether that's positive or negative. And it also depends on the person's gut microbiome, what that's going to be like. But a lot of the side effects that can come with these guns, especially the amount that you're consuming, um, a lot of gas, bloating, diarrhea, and potentially even constipation.

[01:08:53] ERIN: And so, you know, it's, it's almost impossible to isolate like what it is that's causing the issue [01:09:00] for you. But oftentimes. Clients will start to notice once we have this conversation. They'll say, oh my gosh Everything I was eating had gums in it my creamer that I was putting in my coffee My bread that I had for lunch my Crackers that I had so when we start to reduce these we of course start reducing processed foods overall But we also start to you know Just focus on the amount, which we always talk about with nutrition, right?

[01:09:26] ERIN: Like, the, the poison is in the dose, is what I say. It's like, you can probably consume a little bit of something every once in a while, but when you consume it all day, every day, and you're Maybe even already at higher risk for digestive issues, these gums might not be good. And then there's, how are these gums made?

[01:09:45] ERIN: So there are certain gums like xanthan gum that can be derived from wheat, soy, corn, genetically modified ingredients, which are things that people want to maybe steer away from. And so the source of them and the, the way that they're manufactured, [01:10:00] kind of similar to the sweeteners, right? Like how are they produced?

[01:10:03] ERIN: Where do they come from? What? Processing was involved, which isn't always something we'll be able to know from the final product is just another thing that we want to, we want to look out for

[01:10:18] JAMES: now in terms of poison in the dose devil in the dose. Is there any thing which is an absolute no go like palm oil, a Big Mac, beer, not Luton. Is there anything that's an. Not in my world. Nothing's an absolute no no. Even 

[01:10:37] ERIN: palm oil? Unless you have an allergy. No, I just, I've never seen, like, it's, it's, it's what you do consistently that will determine the outcome of your health.

[01:10:48] ERIN: Right. You having palm oil, like, you know, once in a given week or a month or a year, whatever, as long as you are consistent in supporting your body for optimal health the majority of the [01:11:00] time, that Big Mac shouldn't destroy you. Like, you should, your body should be resilient enough. That if you were to go eat a Big Mac, yeah, you might not feel great, like digestive wise per day, but you shouldn't feel the effects of that or feel like that throws off your inflammation for a week.

[01:11:17] ERIN: That is, that's a sign that that body is not resilient to me, and I want patients to be able to understand that. Being healthy is not about perfection. It's about doing the right things consistently the majority of the time and then Understanding that if you do, you know, let's say again You skipped one gym workout in the course of a month like tell me how much of an impact that's really gonna make on the outcome of your physique.

[01:11:43] ERIN: Not much, right? So we have to put things into perspective of, you know, we can't, we can't say that, you know, there's certain things that we can't do that are better for us. Of course, we know there are certain things that are better for us to do, but those things that aren't so good for us, as long as they don't make up the majority of our [01:12:00] diet.

[01:12:00] ERIN: I, I don't see that as a 

[01:12:01] JAMES: problem. I can just feel the passion resonating from your body and it's clear that this aligns to what you're doing on a day to day basis through Nutrition Be Wired. So I think this is a great opportunity to segue into what you're trying to achieve through your platform. You've built a big following.

[01:12:20] JAMES: On social media, which is really impressive. People obviously love your content based on the engagement. So what, what is your vision for how you're building your brand and where you want to go next and what your aims and objectives 

[01:12:33] ERIN: are? Yeah, yeah, this is a great question. And it's, you know, this year has been a big year of, you know, just kind of evaluation for me and just in a stage of my life, you know, I'm.

[01:12:44] ERIN: I'm just over 30 years old and I, you know, never really thought about where my business was going. I just, things took off really quickly. You know, I wasn't necessarily ready for what was going to happen with my business. I just had a passion for what I was [01:13:00] doing and I just knew that like me and that other person on the side of that table or screen, we need to get together and that's where the magic's going to happen.

[01:13:08] ERIN: And over the years, you know, one thing that's really come up for me is we need a team, right? We need a team of people because this person, you know, I can only do so much, right? I can do testing. I can do this. I can do that. There's so much that as dieticians now we are, we have access to, but you know, I want an acupuncturist on my team.

[01:13:29] ERIN: I want a psychologist on my team. I want to, you know, I'm a personal trainer, but I don't have time to do that. I want a personal trainer on my team. I would love to. Get to a place where I have built, you know, maybe it's a physical facility because I love, I love being in person, I love being with a crowd of people, I love community, but I want to build, and there, you know, there's plenty of these types of places out there, I'm, you know, I've even worked for, um, companies like this, but I, I'd love to build that where I feel like I have this community [01:14:00] of people, we're all aligned, and we're all just so invested in helping each individual get better, And that's my dream.

[01:14:08] ERIN: That is, that's my dream right now. And, uh, I don't think it's a far off one. I think it's achievable. It's just a matter of, you know, when is it gonna happen? And I have full, full faith that it, it will happen at the right time. But, you know, in terms of, of goals, it's just, you know, how can I help more people?

[01:14:27] ERIN: And in, in what capacity? Because I'm You know, I see clients all day, every day, you know, up to 35 clients a week and you know, I need, I need more time and I can't get more time. Right. We all know that. So, uh, being able to get people better access to, to healthcare, I love 

[01:14:46] JAMES: it. And as I said, the passion has really shone through throughout the whole conversation.

[01:14:51] JAMES: You obviously love this and I think it stems back from you essentially helping yourself through this journey. And now you're helping [01:15:00] others through. So, if people want to learn more about gut health, uh, their diet, what dietitians do, have you got any resources that you recommend in this? Opportunity to plug your own.

[01:15:14] JAMES: Of course. Um, yeah. Yeah. Where should people go to learn more? 

[01:15:18] ERIN: Mm-Hmm? . Yeah. I mean there's, you know, if people wanna reach out to me too, if they're looking for specific, like books on specific topics, whether it's acid reflux or sibo, or. You know, specific goals of things that they're working on. Please message me.

[01:15:32] ERIN: I'm happy to to send out any resources specific because there's not like one guidebook that that covers it all. Unfortunately, unless you're, you know, human nutrition science is a great book, you know, get something like that. And you learn about just the basics of physiology. You can really You know, I've seen things even on social media from a different lens and it's empowering to really understand the science, but nonetheless, I, I have a great podcast, [01:16:00] Nutrition Rewired, where I try to bring in experts and tie in, um, this holistic health aspect.

[01:16:05] ERIN: So, you know, if you're looking for some free information and, and enjoy this type of long form content, then I would definitely check that out. Otherwise, you know, I'm on Instagram at Nutrition Rewired and I always try to, again, really provide people with practical, free tips that they can take away to optimize their health, whether it's hormone balance, you know, sports nutrition, gut health, uh, really trying to cover all, all the different areas.

[01:16:30] ERIN: But I would love to stay in touch if anybody has questions or needs resources, I'm always happy to, to share any of those. 

[01:16:38] JAMES: Fabulous. You've been very, very generous with your time. Really appreciate 

[01:16:43] ERIN: it. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. This is great. Really appreciate it.

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